More Medical Fun

[Joe Zeff]

Some of you might vaguely remember that I had cataract surgery several
years ago. I recently had my annual eye exam and found out that the
capsule behind the implant was starting to fog up. Not just one eye,
both. Doing some research, I learned that this happens after several
years in about 30% of all cataract removals. I guess you might say that
I got lucky, for a rather non-standard definition of "lucky."

However, it's not as bad as it sounds. There is a procedure, laser
capsulotomy, that removes the scar tissue by zapping it with a laser.
It's outpatient, and you don't even need to have your eye covered
afterward, or put drops in.

I had it done to my right eye yesterday. After dilating my eye, the
doctor put some sort of lens over the eye to focus things and keep it
open, rather like a monocle. Then, I had to stare into a bright light[1]
while he zapped various parts of the capsule with a laser. By the time
he was finished, he'd zapped me 53 times.[2] It was a few hours before I
could keep that eye open for long unless the light were dim, but the
difference was obvious: my left eye looks like it's viewing everything
through a very thin haze.

At the moment, I have some black floaters in that eye, but with luck,
they'll go away in time; if not, it's a small price to pay. And, in
about two weeks, I get to go back and look into the laser with my
remaining eye. I'm looking forward to it.

[1]My eyes are always very, very sensitive to such things; if it weren't
for the monocle, I'd have had to use my hand to keep my eye from closing.
[2]Of course I counted; what else was there to pay attention to?

[Wojciech Derechowski]

Post by Joe Zeff
Some of you might vaguely remember that I had cataract surgery several
years ago. I recently had my annual eye exam and found out that the
capsule behind the implant was starting to fog up. Not just one eye,
both. Doing some research, I learned that this happens after several
years in about 30% of all cataract removals. I guess you might say that
I got lucky, for a rather non-standard definition of "lucky."

[...]

Post by Joe Zeff
At the moment, I have some black floaters in that eye, but with luck,
they'll go away in time; if not, it's a small price to pay. And, in
about two weeks, I get to go back and look into the laser with my
remaining eye. I'm looking forward to it.

If you like being zapped you can always count on two-fold increase of retinal
detachment after capsulotomy at 1.6-1.9% of all cataract cases as we can see
under Morbidity and mortality rates here:

http://www.surgeryencyclopedia.com/La-Pa/Laser-Posterior-Capsulotomy.html

[Joe Zeff]

Post by Wojciech Derechowski
If you like being zapped you can always count on two-fold increase of
retinal detachment after capsulotomy

It's not getting zapped in general that I like, it's the results from
this one. And, unless things have changed since Dan Alderson had
diabetic problems with his retina, the surgery leaves little dead spots
behind. Here's hoping that I never need to find out.

[Steve VanDevender]

Post by Joe Zeff

Post by Wojciech Derechowski
If you like being zapped you can always count on two-fold increase of
retinal detachment after capsulotomy

It's not getting zapped in general that I like, it's the results from
this one. And, unless things have changed since Dan Alderson had
diabetic problems with his retina, the surgery leaves little dead spots
behind. Here's hoping that I never need to find out.

Diabetic retinopathy is different than retinal detachment. At least a
quick consultation of Wackypedia suggests that diabetic retinopathy is a
problem with blood leaking from the capillaries in the retina while
retinal detachment is having the retina actually peel off the back of
the eye.

Having actually experienced a retinal detachment and the corrective
surgery for it, I can say that the result was not dead spots in my
vision but a certain level of visual distortion (which I attribute to
the actual physical displacement and replacement of the retina) and some
minor loss of visual acuity.

[Joe Zeff]

Post by Steve VanDevender
Diabetic retinopathy is different than retinal detachment. At least a
quick consultation of Wackypedia suggests that diabetic retinopathy is a
problem with blood leaking from the capillaries in the retina while
retinal detachment is having the retina actually peel off the back of
the eye.

You are correct; I sit corrected.

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Steve VanDevender" <***@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote in message news:mjhbbi$ebl$***@thames.novusordo.net...
[...]

Post by Steve VanDevender
Having actually experienced a retinal detachment and the corrective
surgery for it, I can say that the result was not dead spots in my
vision but a certain level of visual distortion (which I attribute to
the actual physical displacement and replacement of the retina) and
some minor loss of visual acuity.

Brr. Eye surgery.

Oh well. So is it true that after a few days/weeks, the brain will
correct such things?

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Brian Kantor]

Post by Maarten Wiltink
Brr. Eye surgery.
Oh well. So is it true that after a few days/weeks, the brain will
correct such things?

Yes, especially if there is corresponding good sight from the other
eye. I have some holes in my vision from my left eye as a result of
some laser welding on the retina but since the corresponding area in
the right eye was not affected, I'm not aware of them being there
except when I close the right eye. And even then I have to concentrate
to see them. They appear as small fuzzy black dots. I'm certainly not
conscious of them in day-to-day activities.
- Brian

[Steve VanDevender]

Post by Maarten Wiltink
[...]

Post by Steve VanDevender
Having actually experienced a retinal detachment and the corrective
surgery for it, I can say that the result was not dead spots in my
vision but a certain level of visual distortion (which I attribute to
the actual physical displacement and replacement of the retina) and
some minor loss of visual acuity.

Brr. Eye surgery.

It was, in my case and apparently most others, outpatient surgery. It
was done under general anesthetic (thankfully) but I was out of the
hospital later the same day. It can all be done with instruments
inserted through a small incision in the sclera that doesn't even need
to be sutured (I believe it was said a small injection of salt water
reseals the incision).

Post by Maarten Wiltink
Oh well. So is it true that after a few days/weeks, the brain will
correct such things?

It's been over a year since the surgery and the visual distortion in my
left eye is still there. Mainly straight lines don't look quite
straight; there's a slight kink in them slightly off-center of the field
of vision. Also overall things look a bit narrower in horizontal extent
seen from the left eye. It does seem to have improved slightly over
time but I'm not sure it's ever going to entirely go away.

[Maarten Wiltink]

Post by Steve VanDevender

[...] So is it true that after a few days/weeks, the brain will
correct such things?

It's been over a year since the surgery and the visual distortion in
my left eye is still there. Mainly straight lines don't look quite
straight; there's a slight kink in them slightly off-center of the
field of vision. Also overall things look a bit narrower in horizontal
extent seen from the left eye. It does seem to have improved slightly
over time but I'm not sure it's ever going to entirely go away.

Fascinating.

My own eyes are sufficiently unequal that I can't even usefully compare
them - the left one contributes virtually no independent content[0]. But
its image seems to be slightly rotated from the other eye. This is
almost forty years since the strabismus surgery (at age four; I don't
even remember it, never have). Not that I mean to discourage you.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[0] 3D movies? Yes, no.

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Fri, 22 May 2015 13:44:30 +0000, Maarten Wiltink wrote:
[...]

This is almost forty years since the strabismus surgery

Strabismus? Oh yes,

...

[Lawns 'R' Us]

Post by Maarten Wiltink
[0] 3D movies? Yes, no.

I am yet to see a film where I honestly thought that stereoscopic
effects[1] would improve the experience. The fact that such screenings
tend to cost more is just an added bonus to my hip pocket.

[1] I refuse to call it "3D" until such time as I can walk around
behind the picture and see the cameras that were recording the
footage.

[Steve VanDevender]

Post by Maarten Wiltink

Post by Steve VanDevender

[...] So is it true that after a few days/weeks, the brain will
correct such things?

It's been over a year since the surgery and the visual distortion in
my left eye is still there. Mainly straight lines don't look quite
straight; there's a slight kink in them slightly off-center of the
field of vision. Also overall things look a bit narrower in horizontal
extent seen from the left eye. It does seem to have improved slightly
over time but I'm not sure it's ever going to entirely go away.

Fascinating.
My own eyes are sufficiently unequal that I can't even usefully compare
them - the left one contributes virtually no independent content[0]. But
its image seems to be slightly rotated from the other eye. This is
almost forty years since the strabismus surgery (at age four; I don't
even remember it, never have). Not that I mean to discourage you.

I was never really expecting that the vision in the left eye would go
back exactly to the way it was before. I was happy enough that
something like retinal detachment can be repaired at all, and according
to the opthalmologist mine came out a bit better than the usual standard
(if you had 20/20 vision before, getting to 20/40 afterward is
considered good, and I am apparently back to about 20/30). My left eye
had always been a bit weaker than the right eye, so my binocular fusion
wasn't that great to begin with.

I also might get to have a lens replacement in the left eye eventually
as a common side effect of vitrectomy is the development of increased
cloudiness in the lens.

[Maarten Wiltink]

[...] And, in about two weeks, I get to go back and look into the laser
with my remaining eye.

Being able to say that alone is worth the procedure.

I'm looking forward to it.

...While you stil have one good eye left.
Or was it on the right? I forget so quickly.

Good luck anyway.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Roger Bell_West]

Post by Maarten Wiltink

[...] And, in about two weeks, I get to go back and look into the laser
with my remaining eye.

Being able to say that alone is worth the procedure.

When I was working at $ISP we had a senior network tech who looked
down a transatlantic STM-1 to see what would happen. Half an hour
later, the eye started working again.

[mikea]

Post by Roger Bell_West

Post by Maarten Wiltink

[...] And, in about two weeks, I get to go back and look into the laser
with my remaining eye.

Being able to say that alone is worth the procedure.

When I was working at $ISP we had a senior network tech who looked
down a transatlantic STM-1 to see what would happen. Half an hour
later, the eye started working again.

The Clues, they are *safe*.

[Roger Bell_West]

Post by mikea

Post by Roger Bell_West
When I was working at $ISP we had a senior network tech who looked
down a transatlantic STM-1 to see what would happen. Half an hour
later, the eye started working again.

The Clues, they are *safe*.

He was a fairly smart bloke in other respects. Prompt idiocy
excursion?

[mikea]

Post by Roger Bell_West

Post by mikea

Post by Roger Bell_West
When I was working at $ISP we had a senior network tech who looked
down a transatlantic STM-1 to see what would happen. Half an hour
later, the eye started working again.

The Clues, they are *safe*.

He was a fairly smart bloke in other respects. Prompt idiocy
excursion?

All the bogons in his head moved randomly to a volume small enough to create a
Prompt Idiocy Excursion ("PIE" hereinafter).

[David Cameron Staples]

Post by mikea
All the bogons in his head moved randomly to a volume small enough to create a
Prompt Idiocy Excursion ("PIE" hereinafter).

The linguist in me blinked at that.

[Wojciech Derechowski]

Post by David Cameron Staples

Post by mikea
All the bogons in his head moved randomly to a volume small enough to create a
Prompt Idiocy Excursion ("PIE" hereinafter).

The linguist in me blinked at that.

I am still looking at the "prompt" in the PIE. Given the path integral it seems
that the time needed for "excursion" to occur depends directly on dimensions of
the head and inversly on the Plank constant which, being very small indeed,
makes that time much longer than the age of the universe.

[Alan J. Wylie]

Post by Roger Bell_West

Post by Maarten Wiltink

[...] And, in about two weeks, I get to go back and look into the laser
with my remaining eye.

Being able to say that alone is worth the procedure.

When I was working at $ISP we had a senior network tech who looked
down a transatlantic STM-1 to see what would happen. Half an hour
later, the eye started working again.

Must be 30 years since $ORKPLACE had "do not stare into laser with
remaining eye" notices on the doors. Infra-red lasers steered with
mirrors to draw on liquid crystals. The days when multi-user computers
had 512k of RAM and the concept of bitmapped displays was unheard of.

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

Post by Roger Bell_West
When I was working at $ISP we had a senior network tech who looked
down a transatlantic STM-1 to see what would happen.

Has he considered going into Fluorine Chemistry?

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Wed, 27 May 2015 20:12:06 -0400, Shmuel Metz

Post by Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

Post by Roger Bell_West
When I was working at $ISP we had a senior network tech who looked
down a transatlantic STM-1 to see what would happen.

Has he considered going into Fluorine Chemistry?

<heh!> I had cause to look up a textbook on fluorine chemistry
once, after trying to do an assay of fluorine remaining in a gas target
after a muonium-reaction kinetics experiment. I tried to do a titration
using methanol as the solvent rather than water. First I set the lab on
fire when trying to degas the methanol, having forgotten about boiling
chips (I only did one year of university chemistry). Second try, I slowly
opened the valve to let the fluorine (buffered in nitrogen) into the flask
through a fine teflon tube. "That's funny, looked like a spark!" Tried
again, same thing.

That's when I stopped and went looking for the text-book. In the
section on reactions with alcohols, the comment was along the lines, "The
only product ever reported from the reaction of fluorine with methanol is
an explosion!"

[Chris Adams]

Post by Ivan D. Reid
That's when I stopped and went looking for the text-book. In the
section on reactions with alcohols, the comment was along the lines, "The
only product ever reported from the reaction of fluorine with methanol is
an explosion!"

Reminds me of one of my favorite XKCD "What if?" articles:

https://what-if.xkcd.com/40/

Dioxygen difluoride, aka FOOF, is some seriously dangerous stuff!

[Lawns 'R' Us]

Post by Chris Adams
https://what-if.xkcd.com/40/
Dioxygen difluoride, aka FOOF, is some seriously dangerous stuff!

I'm sure that the September members of this froup do not need to be
pointed at http://www.tor.com/2012/07/20/a-tall-tail/, for they
already know it.

[Alexander Schreiber]

Post by Chris Adams

Post by Ivan D. Reid
That's when I stopped and went looking for the text-book. In the
section on reactions with alcohols, the comment was along the lines, "The
only product ever reported from the reaction of fluorine with methanol is
an explosion!"

https://what-if.xkcd.com/40/
Dioxygen difluoride, aka FOOF, is some seriously dangerous stuff!

Time to point to that most excellent of blogs with a subsection of
"Things I won't work with":

http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/

Kind regards,
Alex.

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Sat, 30 May 2015 19:23:29 +0200, Alexander Schreiber

Post by Alexander Schreiber

Post by Chris Adams

Post by Ivan D. Reid
That's when I stopped and went looking for the text-book. In the
section on reactions with alcohols, the comment was along the lines, "The
only product ever reported from the reaction of fluorine with methanol is
an explosion!"

https://what-if.xkcd.com/40/
Dioxygen difluoride, aka FOOF, is some seriously dangerous stuff!

Time to point to that most excellent of blogs with a subsection of
http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/

We were scheduled once to do experiments on enediynes[323] at PSI,
but my colleagues from UEA (Norwich) got in touch a few weeks before to
cancel, the chemical had exploded in the synthesis. They did eventually
get the synthesis right and the paper was published in 2004.

Earlier at TRIUMF we were going to do experiments in ethyne
(acetylene), which is just the one triple bond. This could have
polymerised explosively when we bombarded it with muons, and my colleague
in charge kept finding other loose ends to tie up, until it was finally
left to me, late one night, to finally fire muons into a container of
acetylene. Nothing untoward happened, but the road to publication was slow;
it comes out in J. Phys. Chem. A later this year.

I got my own back on him later, in a Mu+H2 experiment, when we got
up to 850 K at something like 8 atm of H2 with a 0.05 mm inconel entrance
window for the muons. He was on shift when we hit this point, again late
at night, and he pulled out the yard-long quarter-inch diameter monitor
thermocouple from its tube, to use a smaller thermocouple to measure the
temperature gradient down the target. It was glowing red-hot but there
was no-one else to show it to, so he just waved it around like a light
sabre.

[323] Two carbon triple bonds separated by a double bond. That way lies
potential instability. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enediyne

[Joe Zeff]

It was glowing red-hot but there was no-one else to show it to, so he
just waved it around like a light sabre.

Did he at least get some pictures, or do you just have his word for it?

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Sat, 30 May 2015 21:52:59 GMT, Joe Zeff

Post by Joe Zeff

It was glowing red-hot but there was no-one else to show it to, so he
just waved it around like a light sabre.

Did he at least get some pictures, or do you just have his word for it?

The latter, I'm afraid; this was in '85 or so, long before the sheeple
could afford to carry around the current approximation to tricorders.

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Thu, 28 May 2015 19:08:26 +0000, Ivan D. Reid wrote:
[...]

Post by Ivan D. Reid
That's when I stopped and went looking for the text-book. In the
section on reactions with alcohols, the comment was along the lines, "The
only product ever reported from the reaction of fluorine with methanol is
an explosion!"

Not a bad thing though if you like blowing things up. Hope that CMS
Collaboration is safe, if that's *the* CMS Collaboration. Regards,

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Fri, 29 May 2015 07:42:23 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski

Post by Wojciech Derechowski
[...]

Post by Ivan D. Reid
That's when I stopped and went looking for the text-book. In the
section on reactions with alcohols, the comment was along the lines, "The
only product ever reported from the reaction of fluorine with methanol is
an explosion!"

Not a bad thing though if you like blowing things up. Hope that CMS
Collaboration is safe, if that's *the* CMS Collaboration. Regards,

It is, but this was many years ago when I worked at TRIUMF for UBC.
And it was done on a Sunday so no Canadians were harmed in either the fire
or the micro-explosions. I did have to report the use of a powder fire-
extinguisher though, eh?

[Wojciech Derechowski]

Post by Ivan D. Reid
On Fri, 29 May 2015 07:42:23 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski

[...]

Post by Ivan D. Reid

Hope that CMS Collaboration is safe, if that's *the* CMS Collaboration.

It is

What do you think:

...?

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Sat, 30 May 2015 04:38:36 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski

Post by Wojciech Derechowski

Post by Ivan D. Reid
On Fri, 29 May 2015 07:42:23 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski

[...]

Post by Ivan D. Reid

Hope that CMS Collaboration is safe, if that's *the* CMS Collaboration.

It is

What do you think: http://youtu.be/n-NwLUPZWZc ...?

I've not watched it in full, but one of our students had a leading
role in the movie. Reputedly he utters the most cringeworthy line in the
film, something about the "God particle" IIRC.

[Wojciech Derechowski]

Post by Ivan D. Reid
On Sat, 30 May 2015 04:38:36 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski

[...]

Post by Ivan D. Reid

Post by Wojciech Derechowski
What do you think: http://youtu.be/n-NwLUPZWZc ...?

I've not watched it in full, but one of our students had a leading
role in the movie. Reputedly he utters the most cringeworthy line in the
film, something about the "God particle" IIRC.

Well, it's a zombie film so one has to allow for a fair amount of
nonsense. OTOH take for instance the 'Particle Fever' where for no
apparent reason there's some talk about the Higgs and multiverse
if m_H were to be on the order of 140 GeV. That's a bit unclear to
say the least.

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Sat, 30 May 2015 11:36:40 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski

Post by Wojciech Derechowski

Post by Ivan D. Reid
On Sat, 30 May 2015 04:38:36 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski

[...]

Post by Ivan D. Reid

Post by Wojciech Derechowski
What do you think: http://youtu.be/n-NwLUPZWZc ...?

I've not watched it in full, but one of our students had a leading
role in the movie. Reputedly he utters the most cringeworthy line in the
film, something about the "God particle" IIRC.

Well, it's a zombie film so one has to allow for a fair amount of
nonsense. OTOH take for instance the 'Particle Fever' where for no
apparent reason there's some talk about the Higgs and multiverse
if m_H were to be on the order of 140 GeV. That's a bit unclear to
say the least.

As you say, different audiences. I didn't have much trouble with
it, but maybe I've been consorting with high-energy particle physicists
for too long. As a CMS person I felt it was too ATLAS-centric, but ATLAS
caught on to a few publicity truths some years before CMS did. My
understanding was that a lot of the early footage was self-shot (the
post-doc's blogs, for example) before the director pulled it together and
added the linking/later scenes, but I don't know exactly when he became
involved.

[Mans Nilsson]

Post by Ivan D. Reid
On Wed, 27 May 2015 20:12:06 -0400, Shmuel Metz

Post by Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

Post by Roger Bell_West
When I was working at $ISP we had a senior network tech who looked
down a transatlantic STM-1 to see what would happen.

Has he considered going into Fluorine Chemistry?

<heh!> I had cause to look up a textbook on fluorine chemistry
once,

I only needed to read Max Gergel on the subject. This cured me from any
ambitions of making a living in the chemistry business.

[mikea]

Post by Mans Nilsson

Post by Ivan D. Reid
On Wed, 27 May 2015 20:12:06 -0400, Shmuel Metz

Post by Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

Post by Roger Bell_West
When I was working at $ISP we had a senior network tech who looked
down a transatlantic STM-1 to see what would happen.

Has he considered going into Fluorine Chemistry?

<heh!> I had cause to look up a textbook on fluorine chemistry
once,

I only needed to read Max Gergel on the subject. This cured me from any
ambitions of making a living in the chemistry business.

You are aware, I hope, that Max Gergel has written more than one book. If you
weren't, you are now.

[Mans Nilsson]

Post by mikea

Post by Mans Nilsson
I only needed to read Max Gergel on the subject. This cured me from any
ambitions of making a living in the chemistry business.

You are aware, I hope, that Max Gergel has written more than one book. If you
weren't, you are now.

Indeed I am, and were. I think I've read three, if memory serves.

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

Post by Ivan D. Reid
(I only did one year of university chemistry)

I wouldn't go near the stuff without far more training and some truly
paranoid safety procedures. Even then I'd be reluctant. Read the bios
of the pioneers, or read up on the toxicology. Brr!

[Joe Zeff]

Post by Joe Zeff
At the moment, I have some black floaters in that eye, but with luck,
they'll go away in time; if not, it's a small price to pay.

And, in fact, they've now gone away. There might be one or two left, but
I think that the fact that I'm not sure tells you how small they are.

[Wojciech Derechowski]

Post by Joe Zeff

Post by Joe Zeff
At the moment, I have some black floaters in that eye, but with luck,
they'll go away in time; if not, it's a small price to pay.

And, in fact, they've now gone away. There might be one or two left, but
I think that the fact that I'm not sure tells you how small they are.

Excellent. I had to go thru the surgery on both sides last year, hence my
interest in the case. BTW the clinic wants to check my discs and retinas
this year. Such cases as yours may be the reason why.

[Joe Zeff]

Post by Wojciech Derechowski
Excellent. I had to go thru the surgery on both sides last year, hence
my interest in the case. BTW the clinic wants to check my discs and
retinas this year. Such cases as yours may be the reason why.

The odds are on your side, because this only happens about 30% of the
time and in my case, it was caught in a routine eye exam.

To give you an idea of what things are like right now, imagine looking
through a pair of glasses with one lens clean, and a fingerprint on the
other. If you're not having any trouble with night vision, or halos
around street lights on a clear night, you're probably OK.

[John F. Eldredge]

Post by Joe Zeff

Post by Wojciech Derechowski
Excellent. I had to go thru the surgery on both sides last year, hence
my interest in the case. BTW the clinic wants to check my discs and
retinas this year. Such cases as yours may be the reason why.

The odds are on your side, because this only happens about 30% of the
time and in my case, it was caught in a routine eye exam.
To give you an idea of what things are like right now, imagine looking
through a pair of glasses with one lens clean, and a fingerprint on the
other. If you're not having any trouble with night vision, or halos
around street lights on a clear night, you're probably OK.

I had to go through cataract surgery at age 52 (earlier than normal,
probably because of my diabetes). I decided to spend the extra money
required to get toroidal lenses, to (mostly) correct my astigmatism. It
also corrected my severe nearsightedness. Unfortunately, a few days
after the first eye was operated on, I rubbed it while still half-asleep.
This caused the incision to pop open, and it had to be sutured. What
wasn't evident until that eye healed was that I had also slightly
displaced the lens, so that the astigmatism correction in that eye is
slightly off. I still see much better than I did even before the
cataracts started to develop. I was told, "You won't need glasses."
This turned out not to be accurate; I now need reading glasses for
anything within arms-length.

[Joe Zeff]

I was told, "You won't need glasses." This turned out
not to be accurate; I now need reading glasses for anything within
arms-length.

Yeah; so do I. The Ophthalmologist who did the work was a tad
dissapointed about that. However, they're a standard size and easy to
find in the 99-Cent store.[1]

[1]Not a generic name; there's actually a chain out here by that name.

[Marc Haber]

Post by Joe Zeff
Yeah; so do I. The Ophthalmologist who did the work was a tad
dissapointed about that. However, they're a standard size

They are not. Especially the distance between the optical center of
the classes (Pupillendistanz in German) differs, so you look through a
prism if the glasses are misaligned.

That's not so bad if your reading glasses only have 0,5 diopters, but
will be increasingly bad if your glasses get stronger.

Custom made glasses are _always_ _much_ better than ready-made ones
with standard values, and since we all work and make money with our
eyes, it is well-invested money. Single-strength reading glasses are
not _that_ expensive anyway.

Greetings
Marc

[Joe Zeff]

They are not. Especially the distance between the optical center of the
classes (Pupillendistanz in German) differs, so you look through a prism
if the glasses are misaligned.

That may be so, but with the 2.5 diopter glasses that I get for $.99
each, I can't see any problems at the short ranges I need them for,
especially as my right eye has been turning in for well over half a
century, to the point that most of the time I don't even notice the
slight double vision.

[Marc Haber]

Post by Joe Zeff

They are not. Especially the distance between the optical center of the
classes (Pupillendistanz in German) differs, so you look through a prism
if the glasses are misaligned.

That may be so, but with the 2.5 diopter glasses that I get for $.99
each, I can't see any problems at the short ranges I need them for,
especially as my right eye has been turning in for well over half a
century, to the point that most of the time I don't even notice the
slight double vision.

Double vision is the least of the problems that might be caused by
looking through a prism cuases by misaligned 2,5 diopter glasses.
Headaches, Neck aches etc can all be caused by such things.

Not mentioning that you might be able to see even better with proper
glasses.

Greetings
Marc

[Joe Zeff]

Post by Marc Haber
Double vision is the least of the problems that might be caused by
looking through a prism cuases by misaligned 2,5 diopter glasses.
Headaches, Neck aches etc can all be caused by such things.

If I had any of those issues, that would be UI. As it happens, after I
had the cataract surgery, I was told that I needed 2.5 diopter reading
glasses and that I didn't need a custom prescription. I'll take the
advice of the trained professional in this, TYVM.

[Marc Haber]

Post by Joe Zeff

Post by Marc Haber
Double vision is the least of the problems that might be caused by
looking through a prism cuases by misaligned 2,5 diopter glasses.
Headaches, Neck aches etc can all be caused by such things.

If I had any of those issues, that would be UI. As it happens, after I
had the cataract surgery, I was told that I needed 2.5 diopter reading
glasses and that I didn't need a custom prescription. I'll take the
advice of the trained professional in this, TYVM.

At least in Germany, Doctors tend to take the least troubleful way and
are satisfied when the customer doesn't hit the next signal light pole
on the street. An optometrist is a trained professional as well, and
will do what is necessary to get the most out of the customers' eyes.

Greetings
Marc, married to an optometrist

[Richard Heathfield]

On 24/05/15 20:39, Marc Haber wrote:

<snip>

Post by Marc Haber
An optometrist is a trained professional as well, and
will do what is necessary to get the most out of the customers' eyes.

That may not have been the best way to phrase it. Am I the only one
imagining a spoon at this point?

[Marc Haber]

Post by Richard Heathfield

Post by Marc Haber
An optometrist is a trained professional as well, and
will do what is necessary to get the most out of the customers' eyes.

That may not have been the best way to phrase it.

Not a native speaker. I apologize.

Greetings
Marc, who finds it surprisingly hard to write non-IT english

[Richard Heathfield]

Post by Marc Haber

Post by Richard Heathfield

Post by Marc Haber
An optometrist is a trained professional as well, and
will do what is necessary to get the most out of the customers' eyes.

That may not have been the best way to phrase it.

Not a native speaker. I apologize.
Greetings
Marc, who finds it surprisingly hard to write non-IT english

Oh, no no no no no! Please *don't* apologise. You know what they say:

Laptop: £599.99.
Broadband connection: £41.88 per month.
Vision of optometrist rattling his spoon around customer's eye socket to
scrape out the last of the vitreous humour and retina: priceless.

[Joe Zeff]

Post by Marc Haber
At least in Germany, Doctors tend to take the least troubleful way and
are satisfied when the customer doesn't hit the next signal light pole
on the street. An optometrist is a trained professional as well, and
will do what is necessary to get the most out of the customers' eyes.

In this case, I had the work done by an Ophthalmologist at the VA. Prior
to that, they'd always found a way to make a "one time exception"[1] to
get me new glasses at no charge because I couldn't afford to have them
made at a commercial establishment.

[1]There were three of these made for me, if memory serves.

[David Scheidt]

Marc Haber <mh+***@zugschl.us> wrote:
:Joe Zeff <***@lasfsinc.info> wrote:
:>On Sun, 24 May 2015 13:35:32 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
:>> Double vision is the least of the problems that might be caused by
:>> looking through a prism cuases by misaligned 2,5 diopter glasses.
:>> Headaches, Neck aches etc can all be caused by such things.
:>
:>If I had any of those issues, that would be UI. As it happens, after I
:>had the cataract surgery, I was told that I needed 2.5 diopter reading
:>glasses and that I didn't need a custom prescription. I'll take the
:>advice of the trained professional in this, TYVM.

:At least in Germany, Doctors tend to take the least troubleful way and
:are satisfied when the customer doesn't hit the next signal light pole
:on the street. An optometrist is a trained professional as well, and
:will do what is necessary to get the most out of the customers' eyes.

I've never had an optometrist or an optomertrist's optician[1] propery
fit a pair of glasses. I've had very good luck with a few independent
shops. My current guy spent more time fitting the first pair of
glasses than every one else I've got glasses from, combined. First
person to propery make a pair of glasses that refect that one of my
eyes is higher than the other. Not by much, but enough that when
glasses are fitted so I look through both optical centers, the glasses
aren't straight.


[1] In US, the optomertrist is the one who prescribes glasses, and
the optician is the person who fits them

[Marc Haber]

Post by David Scheidt
I've never had an optometrist or an optomertrist's optician[1] propery
fit a pair of glasses. I've had very good luck with a few independent
shops. My current guy spent more time fitting the first pair of
glasses than every one else I've got glasses from, combined. First
person to propery make a pair of glasses that refect that one of my
eyes is higher than the other. Not by much, but enough that when
glasses are fitted so I look through both optical centers, the glasses
aren't straight.

My wife is often stunned by bad glasses worn by americans. European
standards seem to be way better than most glasses made and worn in the
states. For example, many americans still wear glasses without
antireflective coating, while this is standard even with the most
cheapest glasses sold in middle Europe. We live near Heidelberg, so we
see a lot of tourists ;-)

The rest being said, it's usually the other way round, good
optometrists spend a heck of more time with measuring and fitting
glasses than an ophtalmologigist (sp?) usually does.

Post by David Scheidt
[1] In US, the optomertrist is the one who prescribes glasses, and
the optician is the person who fits them

At least in Germany, that's usually the same person. After school, you
find a place to learn your craft ("Ausbildung"), being an apprentice
("Lehrling") for three years. Typically four days a week in an
optician's store, two days a week at school. After passing that exam,
you are "Augenoptikergeselle" and can work under supervision of a
"Augenoptikermeister". Typically, Gesellen work in the workshop and
actually fit orderd glasses into the frame chosen by the customer.

If the Geselle chooses to go to school again (this time usually
full-time for two years), he can then take the Meister exam.

Seeing your terminology, I guess that the Geselle is something like
the optician in the US and the Meister is the optometrist. My wife is
Meister, so I chose the right word ;-)

Usually, you go to a shop where your eyes are measured and the same
shop sells you the glasses. Some people, especially older people,
insist on the glasses being prescribed by a doctor, which frequently
results in glasses way suboptimal. It is common that the optometrist
will do his own measurement just to be safe, and the doctor's values
are frequently way off. I have seen cases where the optometrist flat
out refused to put the doctor's prescription glasses in becaust it's
the optometrist who gets the complaints if the results are bad, not
the doctor.

Greetings
Marc

[David Scheidt]

Marc Haber <mh+***@zugschl.us> wrote:
:David Scheidt <***@panix.com> wrote:
:>I've never had an optometrist or an optomertrist's optician[1] propery
:>fit a pair of glasses. I've had very good luck with a few independent
:>shops. My current guy spent more time fitting the first pair of
:>glasses than every one else I've got glasses from, combined. First
:>person to propery make a pair of glasses that refect that one of my
:>eyes is higher than the other. Not by much, but enough that when
:>glasses are fitted so I look through both optical centers, the glasses
:>aren't straight.

:My wife is often stunned by bad glasses worn by americans. European
:standards seem to be way better than most glasses made and worn in the
:states. For example, many americans still wear glasses without
:antireflective coating, while this is standard even with the most
:cheapest glasses sold in middle Europe. We live near Heidelberg, so we
:see a lot of tourists ;-)


:The rest being said, it's usually the other way round, good
:optometrists spend a heck of more time with measuring and fitting
:glasses than an ophtalmologigist (sp?) usually does.

:>[1] In US, the optomertrist is the one who prescribes glasses, and
:>the optician is the person who fits them

:At least in Germany, that's usually the same person. After school, you
:find a place to learn your craft ("Ausbildung"), being an apprentice
:("Lehrling") for three years. Typically four days a week in an
:optician's store, two days a week at school. After passing that exam,
:you are "Augenoptikergeselle" and can work under supervision of a
:"Augenoptikermeister". Typically, Gesellen work in the workshop and
:actually fit orderd glasses into the frame chosen by the customer.

It's entirely different jobs in the US. Most optometrists couldn't
make a pair of glasses if their life depended on it, but they have
qutie a bit of training on diagnosising and prescribing corrective
devices (and drugs, in most states.). Opticians can't prescribe
glasses, and almost none of the would know how. Opticians are
regulated, or not, by the several states. About half the states have
no regulations, and only a few require real licensing. Even where
there is licensing, it's often only required for the person fitting,
and not the tech who makes them, or vice versa.

:If the Geselle chooses to go to school again (this time usually
:full-time for two years), he can then take the Meister exam.

:Seeing your terminology, I guess that the Geselle is something like
:the optician in the US and the Meister is the optometrist. My wife is
:Meister, so I chose the right word ;-)

:Usually, you go to a shop where your eyes are measured and the same
:shop sells you the glasses. Some people, especially older people,

That's typically how it works in the US. Except that the doctors who
run the shop see glasses as a big fat profit center, and take it as an
opportunity to gouge some extra money out of their customer's pockets.
(This is why american glasses don't have anti-refletive coatings, the
doctor's shop charges $100 for something that costs $1, and most
people won't pay it.)
So, federal law requires [1] that they give you a copy of the
prescription, which you can take where you like to have filled. These
days, that's often China[2], via a website. I go to an independent
optician, who runs a one man shop, and does everything himself. He's
from Vietnam, where he was opthmologist, but the US wouldn't recognize
his training, and he couldn't afford to go to school in the US, so he
set up shop as an optician, which at the time in Illinois, had little
or no licensing requirement.

[1] Really. Requires. They must give it to you, even if you don't
want it. I often have to ask, despite the clear law.

[2] It's oten China even when you buy them from a shop, sigh.

[Lawns 'R' Us]

Post by David Scheidt
That's typically how it works in the US. Except that the doctors who
run the shop see glasses as a big fat profit center, and take it as an
opportunity to gouge some extra money out of their customer's pockets.

Slightly different in .au. Eye tests are covered by Medicare; they're
effectively free to the individual. Except that the Medicare rebate
paid to the optometrist doesn't cover the cost of the optometrist's
time, the shop, and so forth: an optometrist who only does eye tests
is going to go broke pretty damn quickly.

So it's not so much that the glasses are a big fat profit center, as
it is that the glasses serve to make up the difference. So when people
take their prescription and buy their glasses online, they're
effectively burning the optometrist's money.

Don't get me wrong, I do understand the individual's side of the
story. It's a situation that has evolved over time, and changing it is
a non trivial problem, alas. (The obvious solution - increasing the
Medicare rebate on eye tests - would cause serious problems with the
health budget.)

One of my aunts is an optometrist, and she has a great deal to say on
the subject. She even threatened to disown me if I ever went to
Specsavers.

[TimC]

On 2015-05-25, Lawns 'R' Us (aka Bruce)

Post by Lawns 'R' Us
Don't get me wrong, I do understand the individual's side of the
story. It's a situation that has evolved over time, and changing it is
a non trivial problem, alas. (The obvious solution - increasing the
Medicare rebate on eye tests - would cause serious problems with the
health budget.)
One of my aunts is an optometrist, and she has a great deal to say on
the subject. She even threatened to disown me if I ever went to
Specsavers.

But specsavers do their own tests with their own optometrists.

Who even gave me a printout of my prescription when I asked, but
without the magic numbers.

My motorcycling glasses (frames so thin they fit under the helmet
without any pain, and without breaking after 200 or so repeat flexes -
yes, I've burned through 2 good glasses doing that) are about 3
prescriptions ago, and were such a bad prescription at the time (and
still are) that I could never get good focus of anything at any
distance (road signs are OK, but straining my eyes gives a clearer
result for fine text). And it's not an astigmatism. I honestly don't
know how they did it, and I've studied (astronomical) optics.

Those glasses cost about $500 from memory. I got a titanium pair
about 5 years ago, because they ought to stand up to flexing, no?
They cost >$700. And broke at the bridge a few months ago.

So in response to that, I updated my prescription and went for
specsavers' 2 for 1 for $200 deal. But of course, paid all the
extortion fees. 3 weeks later, I was in the possession of one normal
pair of glasses with anti-reflection, strong refractive index (I'm
+5.7 in my good eye, about +7.5±1(but who cares about that when I
can't tell?) in my bad), blah blah blah, and my first pair of
prescription non-cycling[1] sunglasses with polarised, etc etc, for
the princely sum of $500.

[1] I got cycling sunglasses first prescribed about 6 years ago. I
couldn't see out of my good eye, so bad was the prescription
(complicated by the curvature of wraparounds). I returned them after
repeatedly not finding any difference to the results each time they
were sent back. I tried again a couple of years ago with a different
mob. Still disappointing results for the left half (the flat, you'd
think easy portion) of my good eye, but usable. $800 from memory?
And how the heck did I ever live without them? If I take a brief slow
ride down to the cafe in the morning without them, my eyes sting.

[Garrett Wollman]

Post by David Scheidt
It's entirely different jobs in the US. Most optometrists couldn't
make a pair of glasses if their life depended on it, but they have
qutie a bit of training on diagnosising and prescribing corrective
devices (and drugs, in most states.). Opticians can't prescribe
glasses, and almost none of the would know how. Opticians are
regulated, or not, by the several states. About half the states have
no regulations, and only a few require real licensing. Even where
there is licensing, it's often only required for the person fitting,
and not the tech who makes them, or vice versa.

And note that in some states, optometrists and dispensing opticians
are legally required to work "independently" of each other -- in the
sense that while they may be located in the same facility, one may not
have a financial interest in the other's business. (California in
particular is like this: there is a general legal prohibition on
members of the "learned professions" providing service to the general
public when employed by a corporation engaged in a different line of
business.[1]) That's why the chain opticians (most of which are owned
by Luxottica) advertise "independent doctors of optometry".

-GAWollman

[1] I'm probably describing this wrong, but there was a fairly
important court case that I read about which detailed precisely the
basis under California law by which a chain optician -- probably
LensCrafters -- is forbidden from employing optometrists directly.
Same deal applies to lawyers.

[Marc Haber]

Post by David Scheidt
:My wife is often stunned by bad glasses worn by americans. European
:standards seem to be way better than most glasses made and worn in the
:states. For example, many americans still wear glasses without
:antireflective coating, while this is standard even with the most
:cheapest glasses sold in middle Europe. We live near Heidelberg, so we
:see a lot of tourists ;-)
It's entirely different jobs in the US. Most optometrists couldn't
make a pair of glasses if their life depended on it, but they have
qutie a bit of training on diagnosising and prescribing corrective
devices (and drugs, in most states.). Opticians can't prescribe
glasses, and almost none of the would know how. Opticians are
regulated, or not, by the several states. About half the states have
no regulations, and only a few require real licensing. Even where
there is licensing, it's often only required for the person fitting,
and not the tech who makes them, or vice versa.

In Germany, every optician's store ("Optiker") needs to have at least
one Meister on the payroll. Their certificate ("Meisterbrief") needs
to be put on display inside the store, so you cannot have one Meister
in one store in the morning and in the other store in the afternoon.
Other than that, there is no "license" in the game, but we use license
differently in Germany. A license usually is something that is limited
in numbers, while everybody can take the Meister exam and practice if
passed.

Post by David Scheidt
:Usually, you go to a shop where your eyes are measured and the same
:shop sells you the glasses. Some people, especially older people,
That's typically how it works in the US. Except that the doctors who
run the shop see glasses as a big fat profit center,

Ah. Doctors dont run that kind of shop in Germany, they have their
doctor's office and treat medical conditions, while everything that
can be corrected with glasses is not considered a medical condition.

Up to ~ 1995, the sickness fund would give money for glasses, but only
for the worst el cheapo glasses, so nearly everybody paid extra for a
prettier frame or better glasses, for example with better refractive
index in the case of "stronger" glasses to avoid glass blocks.

Post by David Scheidt
and take it as an
opportunity to gouge some extra money out of their customer's pockets.
(This is why american glasses don't have anti-refletive coatings, the
doctor's shop charges $100 for something that costs $1, and most
people won't pay it.)

If more people buy anti-reflective coating, it gets cheaper. It is
actually more expensive to order cheap glasses without anti-reflective
and anti-scratch coating. More expensive glasses still have the
anti-reflective and anti-scratch coating as an extra, but there are
also huge differences in quality.

Not having anti-reflective coating for money is a stupid decision if
you can afford it. It's such a huge gain in wearing comfort,
especially when you work at the screen.

Post by David Scheidt
So, federal law requires [1] that they give you a copy of the
prescription, which you can take where you like to have filled.

If you pay for the optometry, you get the values, yes. But it's rather
common that the price for the optometry is included in the price you
pay for the glass prices. That both explains why internet-ordered
glasses are so cheap (optometry not included) and why glasses in the
shop are more expensive (optometry and consulting included). In fact,
the price difference is not so big as it looks like in the first
place, and when it comes to the thing that makes my work and thus my
salary possible, I appreciate the fact that I have a local store
available to fix problems.

Post by David Scheidt
[2] It's oten China even when you buy them from a shop, sigh.

That's not the case here. You choose a frame from what the shop has in
stock (if not, they'll order it, delivery by the end of the week),
they orde fitting glasses (delivery tomorrow 5 am), put the glasses in
the local grinding machine and you can fetch your new glasses tomorrow
afternoon.

Greetings
Marc

[David Gersic]

Post by Marc Haber

Post by David Scheidt
I've never had an optometrist or an optomertrist's optician[1] propery
fit a pair of glasses. I've had very good luck with a few independent
shops. My current guy spent more time fitting the first pair of
glasses than every one else I've got glasses from, combined. First
person to propery make a pair of glasses that refect that one of my
eyes is higher than the other. Not by much, but enough that when
glasses are fitted so I look through both optical centers, the glasses
aren't straight.

My wife is often stunned by bad glasses worn by americans. European
standards seem to be way better than most glasses made and worn in the
states. For example, many americans still wear glasses without
antireflective coating, while this is standard even with the most
cheapest glasses sold in middle Europe. We live near Heidelberg, so we
see a lot of tourists ;-)

Having just bought two new sets of glasses here, looking at my bill,
the AR coatings are $140 (each), so are probably skipped by the people
not paying very much for their glasses.

[Marc Haber]

Post by David Gersic
Having just bought two new sets of glasses here, looking at my bill,
the AR coatings are $140 (each), so are probably skipped by the people
not paying very much for their glasses.

Wow, that's pretty <expletive> expensive.

Greetings
Marc

[David Gersic]

Post by Marc Haber

Post by David Gersic
Having just bought two new sets of glasses here, looking at my bill,
the AR coatings are $140 (each), so are probably skipped by the people
not paying very much for their glasses.

Wow, that's pretty <expletive> expensive.

Yeah. Well, with my eyes, the whole thing is pretty <expletive> expensive.
My prescription is in the -11.x range in both eyes now, and thanks to
something called "occular albinism", I'm also very light sensitive.

[Marc Haber]

Post by David Gersic

Post by Marc Haber

Post by David Gersic
Having just bought two new sets of glasses here, looking at my bill,
the AR coatings are $140 (each), so are probably skipped by the people
not paying very much for their glasses.

Wow, that's pretty <expletive> expensive.

Yeah. Well, with my eyes, the whole thing is pretty <expletive> expensive.
My prescription is in the -11.x range in both eyes now, and thanks to
something called "occular albinism", I'm also very light sensitive.

Over here, the more expensive the glasses get, the less gets the
surcharge for anti-scratch / anti-reflex.

Greetings
Marc

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

Post by David Scheidt
[1] In US, the optomertrist is the one who prescribes glasses,

What is an opthomologist, chopped liver?

[mikea]

Post by Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

Post by David Scheidt
[1] In US, the optomertrist is the one who prescribes glasses,

What is an opthomologist, chopped liver?

An ophthalmologist is an MD or DO with additional focused education and
experience in ophthalmology.

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

Post by mikea

Post by Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

Post by David Scheidt
[1] In US, the optomertrist is the one who prescribes glasses,

What is an opthomologist, chopped liver?

An ophthalmologist is an MD or DO with additional focused education
and experience in ophthalmology.

Whoosh! He also does refractions. David may prefer an optomotrist, but
that's a separate issue.

Perhaps you're not familiar with the idiom; "what is &foo, chopped
liver?" means you (generic) overlooked &foo.

[David Scheidt]

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <***@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
:In <45k84c-***@mikea.ath.cx>, on 06/05/2015
: at 08:17 AM, mikea <***@mikea.ath.cx> said:

:>Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <***@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote
:>in <5570f7a9$2$fuzhry+tra$***@news.patriot.net>:

:>> In <mjtfgq$fho$***@reader1.panix.com>, on 05/24/2015
:>> at 09:23 PM, David Scheidt <***@panix.com> said:
:>>
:>>>[1] In US, the optomertrist is the one who prescribes glasses,
:>>
:>> What is an opthomologist, chopped liver?

:>An ophthalmologist is an MD or DO with additional focused education
:>and experience in ophthalmology.

:Whoosh! He also does refractions. David may prefer an optomotrist, but
:that's a separate issue.

Most opthamlogists don't do mony refractions, and they tend to do them
poorly. sure, they're trained in them. They're also trained to put
in IVs. But which would you rather have do that? An opthamlogist or
a nurse? Unless I had a medical eye problem, I wouldn't trust the
refration done by an opthamogist. I had one done once, and when I
went to get glasses, the shop wouldn't make them. It failed a sanity
comparison with the previous perscription. The guy who called me
said, "If this is right, you'd see better without your current glasses
on than with".

:Perhaps you're not familiar with the idiom; "what is &foo, chopped
:liver?" means you (generic) overlooked &foo.

Perhaps if you served your liver, instead of just referring to it, it
might get eaten.

[Erwan David]

Post by David Scheidt
Most opthamlogists don't do mony refractions, and they tend to do them
poorly. sure, they're trained in them. They're also trained to put
in IVs. But which would you rather have do that? An opthamlogist or
a nurse? Unless I had a medical eye problem, I wouldn't trust the
refration done by an opthamogist. I had one done once, and when I
went to get glasses, the shop wouldn't make them. It failed a sanity
comparison with the previous perscription. The guy who called me
said, "If this is right, you'd see better without your current glasses
on than with".

Ophtalmologists (at least in France) can also do more specific
examinsations. I reguarly have measure of visual field, OCTs and even
electroretinography (the last in a specialized hospital but done by an
ophtalmologist)

[Steve VanDevender]

If you're going to be a pedantic cranky old bastard, Shmuel, the very
least you could do is bother to spell "ophthalmologist" and
"optometrist" correctly while arguing with people about what they are.

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

Post by Steve VanDevender
If you're going to be a pedantic cranky old bastard, Shmuel,

I prefer "pedant".

Post by Steve VanDevender
the very least you could do is bother to spell "ophthalmologist"
and "optometrist" correctly while arguing with people about what
they are.

Correct spelling has nothing do do with the validity of my
observations and arguments; besides, if you think that my spilling[1]
is bad you should see my handwriting.

[1] For the residents of The Milhuas Home for the Humor Impaired,
that's the obligatory spelling error.

[Brian Kantor]

They are not. Especially the distance between the optical center of =

the

classes (Pupillendistanz in German) differs, so you look through a =

prism

if the glasses are misaligned.

I wear a special prescription for when I'm working on the computer;
since it's a "single vision" prescription, I've found 39dollarglasses.com
to provide fine service at a reasonable price.
- Brian

[Måns Nilsson]

Post by Marc Haber
Double vision is the least of the problems that might be caused by
looking through a prism cuases by misaligned 2,5 diopter glasses.
Headaches, Neck aches etc can all be caused by such things.
Not mentioning that you might be able to see even better with proper
glasses.

I recently discovered that I, who've been (or so I thought) seeing
very well all my life, am nearsighted and not evenly so. The strain
from driving while constantly squinting has left me drowsy and outright
dangerous. Now, with proper long-distance eyewear, I won't risk falling
asleep at the wheel all the time. Too bad the optician thought I'm
much closer to the screen than I am, leaving me with badly aligned
(but correct, to a fashion) computer glasses. Those are paid for by my
employer, so will have to go through all the procurement marshes to get
it fixed.

Now, the +2.5 99 cent style reading glasses I earlier had to be able
to solder and do similar small things, feel really awkward, on the verge
of painful. Mostly, I suspect, from being the same correction on both
left and right.

[Marc Haber]

Post by MÃ¥ns Nilsson
Now, the +2.5 99 cent style reading glasses I earlier had to be able
to solder and do similar small things, feel really awkward, on the verge
of painful. Mostly, I suspect, from being the same correction on both
left and right.

How big is your difference? Otoh, +2,5 near addition is usually given
to people well beyond 50 years. Are you that old?

+2,5 addition is already pretty stiff and well in the range where
misaligned pupil distance also plays a big role. I guess that would be
the real reason.

Greetings
Marc

[The Horny Goat]

On Sun, 24 May 2015 09:29:46 +0200, Marc Haber

Post by Marc Haber
Custom made glasses are _always_ _much_ better than ready-made ones
with standard values, and since we all work and make money with our
eyes, it is well-invested money. Single-strength reading glasses are
not _that_ expensive anyway.

This is precisely why when the power supply on my main monitor blew
yesterday I immediately went down the hill and replaced the old 24"
monitor with a very bright 27" - the tech (who had built this machine
for me in the first place so knew I had DVD-I connectors plus an
unused HDMI connector) forgot to ensure I had the right cable but
fortunately I had an unused HDMI as it would have been hell to rely
strictly on the secondary monitor for even a short time as my only
monitor.

On my personal machine I put my $$$ on the important parts and
consider things like mice disposables.

If this is useful information then I feel your pain!

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Sat, 23 May 2015 03:15:18 +0000, John F. Eldredge wrote:
[...]
[...]

Post by John F. Eldredge
I had to go through cataract surgery at age 52 (earlier than normal,
probably because of my diabetes). I decided to spend the extra money
required to get toroidal lenses, to (mostly) correct my astigmatism. It
also corrected my severe nearsightedness.

My case was similar: 53, high spheres plus cylinder. Because of the
nearsightedness at 16^{-1}m -- this is dioptres or diopters, I don't
remember which is which -- I was expressly asked, however, how much
spherical correction I wanted besides cylindrical one. So I went for
+16 lenses just for the heck of it. I wanted to see how it is when
one doesn't need glasses all the time.

[...]

Post by John F. Eldredge
I now need reading glasses for anything within arms-length.

Of course.

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

Post by Joe Zeff
I get to go back and look into the laser with my
remaining eye.

I don't like the modern procedures, but they're far better than what
they used to have[1], and losing the eyes because I refused treatment
was not an acceptable option.

[1] Sometimes what they used to have was "We can't treat this."

[Joe Zeff]

And, in about two weeks, I get to go back and look into the laser with
my remaining eye.
I'm looking forward to it.

I don't think that I mentioned this earlier, but the procedure had to be
rescheduled because of conflicts with my sister's availability. I ended
up renting a car yesterday, taking it down to the West LA VA Hospital to
see my Hematologist[1] and then to Sepulveda this morning to get my left
eye zapped. Only 18 zaps this time, and I've now returned the rental.
It may be a function of how many times the Ophthalmologist needed to use
the laser, but there are only a few black floaters this time.

[1]My platelet count is now slightly above normal instead of drastically
low. Neither of us has any idea why.