Discussion:
Lusing managers...
(too old to reply)
Gallian
2017-11-30 16:23:17 UTC
Permalink
...But I repeat myself.

$NEW_MANAGER *insists* on using the exact same wording to start a
development issue with. Of course, our project management/ticketing
system does not have templates to do the boilerplate opening with.

So I get a bug report from a customer, whose wording would make the
opening boilerplate redundant. Figuring that this is an obvious, logical
exception, I skip the boilerplate.

Of course $NEW_MANAGER accepts this with equanimity, right? Right?!

Mart
--
Nobody surrenders to the dread pirate Wesley
The Horny Goat
2017-11-30 19:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gallian
...But I repeat myself.
$NEW_MANAGER *insists* on using the exact same wording to start a
development issue with. Of course, our project management/ticketing
system does not have templates to do the boilerplate opening with.
So I get a bug report from a customer, whose wording would make the
opening boilerplate redundant. Figuring that this is an obvious, logical
exception, I skip the boilerplate.
Of course $NEW_MANAGER accepts this with equanimity, right? Right?!
! Made my day....

https://clientsfromhell.net/ - if this is UI then I feel your pain!
Michel
2017-11-30 21:46:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gallian
...But I repeat myself.
$NEW_MANAGER *insists* on using the exact same wording to start a
development issue with. Of course, our project management/ticketing
system does not have templates to do the boilerplate opening with.
"As a manager, I want to repeat myself quite a lot, so I can bore
the pants off of all of you"?
Gallian
2017-12-01 07:49:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michel
Post by Gallian
...But I repeat myself.
$NEW_MANAGER *insists* on using the exact same wording to start a
development issue with. Of course, our project management/ticketing
system does not have templates to do the boilerplate opening with.
"As a manager, I want to repeat myself quite a lot, so I can bore
the pants off of all of you"?
Since that is almost the exact wording he wants, either you worked with
the guy or there is a school churning them out.

Mart
--
Nobody surrenders to the dread pirate Wesley
Peter Corlett
2017-12-01 09:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Since that is almost the exact wording he wants, either you worked with the
guy or there is a school churning them out.
It's UI, but knowledge of the enemy is power so I'll share it anyway: the "As a
... I want ... so that ..." template is a so-called "user story" in Agile.

I have the same visceral hatred of the damn things, because they are
condescending, and I don't take kindly to being treated like an idiot or a
child. Mockery and sarcasm done in the same format can make it go away after a
while.

"As a BOFH I want to update my CV so that I can get away from this patronising
bullshit."
Roger Bell_West
2017-12-01 09:39:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Corlett
Since that is almost the exact wording he wants, either you worked with the
guy or there is a school churning them out.
It's UI, but knowledge of the enemy is power so I'll share it anyway: the "As a
... I want ... so that ..." template is a so-called "user story" in Agile.
On the other hand, "when I do X, Y happens" is much less useful than
"I'm trying to achieve Z, but when I do X, Y happens".
--
Unfortunately, the only opportunity for heroism in the one Vampire
campaign I was involved with went something like this:
GM: "OK, the sun's coming up. Head back home?"
Me: "Nah. I think I'll watch." -- C. Lee Davis
Wojciech Derechowski
2017-12-01 12:26:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Bell_West
On the other hand, "when I do X, Y happens" is much less useful than
"I'm trying to achieve Z, but when I do X, Y happens".
Which reminds me of so-called geekspeak correspondence lister by tchrist and
the problem it brushes on as documented in __DATA__ section, cf. eg.:

challenging = impossible
check mail = logon to email
clean = simple
client = browser
code = software
coding = creating/making a file
command = system call
commercial network = Extranet
commonplace = ubiquitous
competence = elitism
compile = build
computer = server
computer scientist = engineer
computer scientist = mathematician
computer secretary = admin
condescending = elitist
configurable = confusing

--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?
The Horny Goat
2017-12-01 23:04:51 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:26:33 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski
Post by Wojciech Derechowski
Post by Roger Bell_West
On the other hand, "when I do X, Y happens" is much less useful than
"I'm trying to achieve Z, but when I do X, Y happens".
Which reminds me of so-called geekspeak correspondence lister by tchrist and
challenging = impossible
check mail = logon to email
clean = simple
client = browser
code = software
coding = creating/making a file
command = system call
commercial network = Extranet
commonplace = ubiquitous
competence = elitism
compile = build
computer = server
computer scientist = engineer
computer scientist = mathematician
computer secretary = admin
condescending = elitist
configurable = confusing
Could be worse - I remember back in the old days having to debug an
ALGOL program where in a misguided effort to save memory they included
the line

DEFINE FOUR := 5;

(that code definition required 1 byte vs if you had multiple lines
saying X1 := 4 * X2 in various subroutines it took a byte for every
instance of 4 vs only one for X1 := FOUR * X2)

Naturally the answer turned out to be that some long departed
programmer had "fixed" the code to deal with one subroutine oblivious
to the fact that he had thus bollixed the rest of the program.

I fully appreciate this was before some of the monks here were even
born.....and when 9-track tape was new technology.
Gallian
2017-12-01 10:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Corlett
Since that is almost the exact wording he wants, either you worked with the
guy or there is a school churning them out.
It's UI, but knowledge of the enemy is power so I'll share it anyway: the "As a
... I want ... so that ..." template is a so-called "user story" in Agile.
I had a strong suspicion it was something like that.

Unfortunately it appears that some people tend to get hung up on details
like exact formulation and declaring you're not doing Agile if you don't
use them.
Post by Peter Corlett
I have the same visceral hatred of the damn things, because they are
condescending, and I don't take kindly to being treated like an idiot or a
child. Mockery and sarcasm done in the same format can make it go away after a
while.
"As a BOFH I want to update my CV so that I can get away from this patronising
bullshit."
It's not even that condescending in my eyes, but the redundancy hurts
me. If I get a bug report and start with 'User X reports A while he was
expecting B. Doing C will make him be able to do B...' what is the
damn difficulty of seeing that that is exactly the same thing?

Has luserdom gotten so bad that even ordinary language is too hard these
days?

Mart
--
Nobody surrenders to the dread pirate Wesley
Firesong
2017-12-01 11:02:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gallian
Post by Peter Corlett
Since that is almost the exact wording he wants, either you worked with the
guy or there is a school churning them out.
It's UI, but knowledge of the enemy is power so I'll share it anyway: the "As a
... I want ... so that ..." template is a so-called "user story" in Agile.
I had a strong suspicion it was something like that.
Unfortunately it appears that some people tend to get hung up on details
like exact formulation and declaring you're not doing Agile if you don't
use them.
Post by Peter Corlett
I have the same visceral hatred of the damn things, because they are
condescending, and I don't take kindly to being treated like an idiot or a
child. Mockery and sarcasm done in the same format can make it go away after a
while.
"As a BOFH I want to update my CV so that I can get away from this patronising
bullshit."
It's not even that condescending in my eyes, but the redundancy hurts
me. If I get a bug report and start with 'User X reports A while he was
expecting B. Doing C will make him be able to do B...' what is the
damn difficulty of seeing that that is exactly the same thing?
Has luserdom gotten so bad that even ordinary language is too hard these
days?
Mart
<sarcasm> Yes, LOL! YW! TTFN! </sarcasm>

Procedures are meant to be FOLLOWED, not understood. If they were
understood, there would be to opportunity to flex and/or improve them,
and we wouldn't want that.

Iain
Firesong
2017-12-01 11:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Firesong
Procedures are meant to be FOLLOWED, not understood. If they were
understood, there would be to opportunity to flex and/or improve them,
and we wouldn't want that.
Iain
Hmm, ..would be NO opportunity....

I have stapled my hand in penance.

Iain
Firesong
2017-12-01 11:04:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Firesong
Post by Firesong
Procedures are meant to be FOLLOWED, not understood. If they were
understood, there would be to opportunity to flex and/or improve them,
and we wouldn't want that.
Iain
Hmm, ..would be NO opportunity....
I have stapled my hand in penance.
Iain
Oh for the love of $DEITY!
... would be THE opportunity....

I am punishing myself by drinking until the shame goes away. I will
get my coat....
Roger Bell_West
2017-12-01 11:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Firesong
I am punishing myself by drinking until the shame goes away.
I'll get a shovel.
--
... at one point we had an IT geek for the Air Force with one master's
degree explaining to a GS14 IT geek for NASA with two master's degrees
that at least one of the players in the Mechwarrior campaign needed
Computer Operations skill. -- Frederick Brackin
The Horny Goat
2017-12-01 22:59:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Firesong
Post by Gallian
It's not even that condescending in my eyes, but the redundancy hurts
me. If I get a bug report and start with 'User X reports A while he was
expecting B. Doing C will make him be able to do B...' what is the
damn difficulty of seeing that that is exactly the same thing?
Has luserdom gotten so bad that even ordinary language is too hard these
days?
Mart
<sarcasm> Yes, LOL! YW! TTFN! </sarcasm>
Procedures are meant to be FOLLOWED, not understood. If they were
understood, there would be to opportunity to flex and/or improve them,
and we wouldn't want that.
Sometimes the only real solution is disconnecting the power cable and
putting all the equipment into a box.

Thinking that is fine - actually writing it in a ticket report is
likely to self-LART one's career! I think anybody who's been a Monk
knows that.

That said my most memorable moment in my career was the day I had to
install new hardware in a forensic psychiatric unit (this is where the
patients get committed by a judge not a doctor!) (1) and the alarms
bells went off unexpectedly - found out later that an inmate who had
gone off his medication started acting out - thus triggering the
lockdown. I climbed under the table in the nursing station trying to
look invisible and was later commended by my boss for 'keeping out of
the way of those who knew what to do'.

Needless to say the new equipment got installed on the next shift.....

(1) A real life "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" but without a Jack
Nicholson to make it funny.
Wojciech Derechowski
2017-12-02 04:58:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Horny Goat
(1) A real life "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" but without a Jack
Nicholson to make it funny.
To make it real life always has a Big Nurse rather than Jack Nicholson's
character. Nurse Ratched BTW is much more convincing in the book.

--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?
Michel
2017-12-02 11:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gallian
Post by Peter Corlett
It's UI, but knowledge of the enemy is power so I'll share it anyway: the
"As a ... I want ... so that ..." template is a so-called "user story" in
Agile.
I had a strong suspicion it was something like that.
Unfortunately it appears that some people tend to get hung up on details
like exact formulation and declaring you're not doing Agile if you don't
use them.
People on the whole prone to cargo culting and losing sight of original
purpose of whatever cult is being cargo'd, film at 11?
Post by Gallian
It's not even that condescending in my eyes, but the redundancy hurts
me. If I get a bug report and start with 'User X reports A while he was
expecting B. Doing C will make him be able to do B...' what is the
damn difficulty of seeing that that is exactly the same thing?
I can see the point of having standard patterns. Quite a bit of the Agile
methodology might even be vaguely sensible in certain citcumstances. It's
just unfortunate that it seems to attract people of a dogmatic disposition
going It Is Written That, Therefore We Must, even though said specific bit
makes no sense in the given organisation.

(Lrf, $bex unf whfg tbar bire gb ntvyr. Vg'f n onq svg. Bar grnz, sbhe CBf,
fbzr bs jubz ner abg rzcyblrrf, rnpu CB srrqvat zhygvcyr phfgbzref. Nqq
fbzr funyy jr fnl nethzragngvir qrif jub'ir qrpvqrq gung gur qrsvavgvba bs
qbar fubhyq vapyhqr nccebiny ol gur phfgbzre, jub unir ab gvzr sbe grfgvat,
naq lbh trg n ubevmbagny ohea qbja puneg naq guvatf trg n ovg njxjneq.)

Agile is a funny thing. If it's supposed to be so flexible and, well, agile,
then why does it feel like a straitjacket from this end?
Lawns 'R' Us
2017-12-03 07:39:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michel
Agile is a funny thing. If it's supposed to be so flexible and, well, agile,
then why does it feel like a straitjacket from this end?
Nononononono. You're misunderstanding.

It's not YOU who's agile. It's the lusers. They're so agile, in fact,
that you have absolutely no chance of catching one and nailing down
exactly what it is that they want. But you're still expected to figure
it out and provide it, and Woe Be Unto You if you don't.
Michel
2017-12-08 22:15:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawns 'R' Us
Post by Michel
Agile is a funny thing. If it's supposed to be so flexible and, well, agile,
then why does it feel like a straitjacket from this end?
Nononononono. You're misunderstanding.
It's not YOU who's agile. It's the lusers. They're so agile, in fact,
that you have absolutely no chance of catching one and nailing down
exactly what it is that they want. But you're still expected to figure
it out and provide it, and Woe Be Unto You if you don't.
^ on a hard deadline, obviously
Roger Bell_West
2017-12-08 22:27:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michel
Post by Lawns 'R' Us
It's not YOU who's agile. It's the lusers. They're so agile, in fact,
that you have absolutely no chance of catching one and nailing down
exactly what it is that they want. But you're still expected to figure
it out and provide it, and Woe Be Unto You if you don't.
^ on a hard deadline, obviously
Clearly it is necessary to constrain user desires.

I recommend a fuel-air nailgun with 4mm nails, minimum penetration
depth at least 60mm.
--
I was going to post, habitually, that your experience matches that of my
game group, and it wasn't until I clicked "Reply" that I realized that
you are actually *in* my game group. Not enough coffee for me.
-- Pmandrekar, SJGames.com forums
Steve VanDevender
2017-12-10 00:53:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Bell_West
Post by Michel
Post by Lawns 'R' Us
It's not YOU who's agile. It's the lusers. They're so agile, in fact,
that you have absolutely no chance of catching one and nailing down
exactly what it is that they want. But you're still expected to figure
it out and provide it, and Woe Be Unto You if you don't.
^ on a hard deadline, obviously
Clearly it is necessary to constrain user desires.
I recommend a fuel-air nailgun with 4mm nails, minimum penetration
depth at least 60mm.
" . . . every problem looks like a Messiah."
--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
***@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes
Wojciech Derechowski
2017-12-10 05:08:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve VanDevender
Post by Roger Bell_West
Post by Michel
Post by Lawns 'R' Us
It's not YOU who's agile. It's the lusers. They're so agile, in fact,
that you have absolutely no chance of catching one and nailing down
exactly what it is that they want. But you're still expected to figure
it out and provide it, and Woe Be Unto You if you don't.
^ on a hard deadline, obviously
Clearly it is necessary to constrain user desires.
I recommend a fuel-air nailgun with 4mm nails, minimum penetration
depth at least 60mm.
" . . . every problem looks like a Messiah."
Who the hell is Janet Campbell?

--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?
Michel
2017-12-10 08:40:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve VanDevender
Post by Roger Bell_West
Clearly it is necessary to constrain user desires.
I recommend a fuel-air nailgun with 4mm nails, minimum penetration
depth at least 60mm.
" . . . every problem looks like a Messiah."
Ah, a bit of seasonal cheer.

hymie!
2017-12-01 13:22:01 UTC
Permalink
In our last episode, the evil Dr. Lacto had captured our hero,
Post by Gallian
So I get a bug report from a customer, whose wording would make the
opening boilerplate redundant. Figuring that this is an obvious, logical
exception, I skip the boilerplate.
I find myself subject to what my co-worker calls "check the box" style
management. It doesn't matter if the rule makes sense, or even applies
in this situation. The requirement is there; fulfill the requirement,
check the box, and move on.

--hymie! http://lactose.homelinux.net/~hymie ***@lactose.homelinux.net
Roger Bell_West
2017-12-01 13:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by hymie!
I find myself subject to what my co-worker calls "check the box" style
management. It doesn't matter if the rule makes sense, or even applies
in this situation. The requirement is there; fulfill the requirement,
check the box, and move on.
Given how little work actually needs to be done, and the number of
useless people who need to be found jobs because the only way our
culture can think of to feed people is to tie this to official
employment even though there hasn't been enough work for over fifty
years, it's not surprising that many people in employment are useless.

Box-ticking enables the useless people to do something very slightly
productive, and thus not see through the camouflage and realise how
utterly pointless their lives actually are.
--
I enjoy artistic photographs.
You have been known to indulge in erotica.
He is a pornography addict.
-- Roger BW
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